Episode 10 Anti-Bully It Up Exclusive with Educational Psychologist Mpho Mofokeng
Watch Level Up with Ziyaad, Nabihah, and Isa Plaatjes on Radio Islam International MW 1548
Episode 10: Anti-Bully It Up Exclusive with Mpho Mofokeng - Educational Psychologist and Locum Practice Manager at Leeto Child Development Centre
Sunday 09th November 2025 / 18th Jumada al Ula 1447AH 14h00 - 15h00 (CAT)
Listen to Level Up with Ziyaad, Nabihah, and Isa Plaatjes on Radio Islam International MW 1548
Episode 10: Anti-Bully It Up Exclusive with Mpho Mofokeng - Educational Psychologist and Locum Practice Manager at Leeto Child Development Centre
Sunday 09th November 2025 / 18th Jumada al Ula 1447AH 14h00 - 15h00 (CAT)
Transcipt
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To dear listeners, it's Yomul Aad. And right now in South Africa, it's just past 2:00 p.m. on this 18th day of Jumad
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Oola 14:47 ah which corresponds to Sunday the 9th of November, 2025.
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I'm Zad Plachies and with me are my co-hosts Nabia and Issa Plachis. Welcome to Level Up where we listen, learn, and
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grow inshallah with Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's guidance and we break down the week's news and talk about what really
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matters to young Muslims today. Our WhatsApp line is open. The number is 0727861548
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or you can call in on 01854702.
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So last week we spoke about our timelines being filled with the stories of bullying in schools with more parents
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and students coming forward and more videos surfacing of the horrific acts.
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some very halfhearted apologies from the alleged bullies and with all that we said that we need to get an expert on
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the program to discuss this pressing issue further. Yes, alhamdulillah, we managed to speak with educational
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psychologist Mu King and we will be sharing um the that conversation throughout the program
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inshallah and then later on Isa will be sharing what fills up your child's emotional cup
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and um Zad I don't know if you grew up hearing this but we grew up hearing um and learning that stick s this this
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rhyme that they say um sticks then stones may break my bones but words will never harm me. But in actual fact after
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physical wounds have healed and sometimes even forgotten about emotional wounds usually caused by words or even
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actions like ignoring um and so on. Those never heal and they have longlasting effects on people's mental and emotional state.
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And then something that really follows us into that's something that really follows us into adulthood and even more
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so if people if the people who cause um harm to us are still around.
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So with that in mind let's get into the important conversation with Mafiking of
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the effects of bullying on children and ways in which to prevent it inshallah.
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Amen. So Mufuking is an educational psychologist who earned her degree from the University of the Vitvatus Rand. She
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has extensive experience supporting children, adolesccents and adults across diverse educational and therapeutic
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settings. Currently Empor is also serving as a locom practice manager at Leto Child and Development Center based
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in Morningside Santon where she works with clients presenting a wide range of difficulties including anxiety,
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depression and neurodeiverse profiles such as ADHD and autism.
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She also conducts psycho educational assessments to better understand students cognitive, emotional
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and academic needs and collaborates with families and educators to develop effective support strategies.
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Paul also works in a remedial school where she focuses on helping students with learning difficulties reach their
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full academic and personal potential through individualized support and assessments.
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Hi, I'm Paul. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm going to get straight into the questions so we don't waste any time and we find out why
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um children bully and what we can do about it. So um the first question from a psychological perspective why do
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children bully? Is it typically uh because they are struggling with something themselves or um any other reason?
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There could be a number of reasons of why someone would end up being a bully.
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One of the most observable ones for me would have to be peer dynamics.
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When we think about a child tripping another child and the other kids observing that behavior laugh,
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that can be very encouraging to the child that tripped the other child because it kind of affirms that
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behavior. It reinforces in their minds that being mean or teasing someone else is is funny. It's cool. People will like you. People will expect more of that.
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And so that behavior intensifies um over time. It could also be the power
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and the status that comes with being a bully, being feared, being perceived as being strong, the popularity that could
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potentially come with that. And so the social dynamics or peer dynamics play a very important role in terms of why people continue to be bullies,
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especially in school environments.
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But it could also be other factors like home environments. What kind of parenting are you getting at home? Have you been taught the difference between
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right and wrong? Have you been taught to be mindful of your actions and how they may affect another person? It could also be how a child feels about themselves,
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their self-esteem. Um, some kids have a very low self-esteem and how they boost their self-esteem is through making someone else feel bad.
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um wanting to be powerful in one way or another. Um and that that could be very much encouraging for them to continue to
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bully someone because it makes them feel better about themselves. But it could also be um like looking at the learned
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social patterns that if I want a certain level of status at school, these are the steps or the things that I need to do.
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So it it's quite a complicated number of things that could contribute to that um and a number of factors that play into
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each other as well. Okay. So can you tell us what is the key psychological difference between normal peer conflict
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or teasing and true bullying?
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Some of the key psychological differences between normal peer conflict or teasing and true bullying is that
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with peer conflict, this is something that is normal.
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Students are going to fight as they are growing and establishing themselves.
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They're going to have misalignments and moments of contention with other students where there might be moments of rudeness or meanness with one another,
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but this isn't something that is continuous and is has the intention to cause harm to someone else.
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Whereas bullying is more psychological in nature. It's repetitive. It's deliberate harm. It's wanting to dominate someone and embarrass them.
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It's wanting to know that you are destroying or affecting them or making them be
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perceived in a particular way. It's very much an intentional act of harm.
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Okay. And what are the most significant long-term psychological effects of being bullied? And how does this affect a
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child's development um their self esteem and future relationships?
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Being bullied can cause long-term psychological effects such as having a low self-esteem. Often times when
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children are bullied, it becomes hard for them to rationalize the bullying.
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And what they tend to do is to internalize it and to feel that perhaps the problem is with them. That they must
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be the wrong person here. That there must be something wrong with them because they'll start to compare the people around them and why they aren't
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being bullied and yet they are being bullied and therefore they must be the problem. Right? The child being bullied feels that they are the problem, that
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there's something wrong with them. And this can be very harmful because it affects the relationship that a child will develop with themselves. They won't
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trust themselves. They won't have confidence. They won't be able to apply themselves in a way that they could if they believed in themselves. And so it
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can be very very harmful um in their trajectory of life. Um it can also affect them in terms of causing serious
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mental health conditions like low mood or heightened anxiety. Um and these can
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also be very harmful in terms of a child's well-being. It can also affect them academically.
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If a child is not okay emotionally, they won't always have the capacity to show up and to participate academically in a
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way that is, you know, thriving or in a way that they could be excelling in those environments because they simply
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don't have the mental capacity to engage in that way. And of course, it's going to affect them as well socially because
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now they're being perceived in a particular way. They might not be able to sustain friendships. They might not be able to trust people. There are a
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number of ways in which bullying can affect a child and how they relate with the world around them. And in cases like
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this, then the child would need severe or consistent therapy rather um so that they can address some of those difficulties and work through the pain.
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And can you tell us if there are um any warning signs like subtle or overt
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warning signs that um we as parents or guardians can and even teachers can look
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out for from a child who h has been a victim of bullying.
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There are a number of ways in which you can try to look out or to monitor if your child is okay or whether they being bullied at school or anywhere else. Um,
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and the most key one or important one is a significant change that isn't attributed to just normal development.
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Um, and by that I mean if you naturally have a child that's talkative and loud and expressive and they start being more
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quiet and wanting to be alone and not talking much, that's a significant change. Um, if you have a child that doesn't smile anymore or laugh anymore,
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um, and instead they are quite sensitive and highly emotional, that could also be another thing. Um but also another key
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one is if a child says that they no longer want to go to school. For example, um in the mornings they cry,
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they don't want to go to school, they verbally tell you that they don't want to go there or their behavior shows you that they don't want to go to school.
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That's um a sign that something might not be right at school. And of course it will require more investigation in terms
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of determining what is happening in that environment that could be causing that resistance. Um but I think those are the
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main things that you can try to look out for. It's that change in their presentation that isn't attributed to
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what would be like age appropriate for that time.
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We often say, why doesn't someone do something about it? Or why are the other children or the other students not doing
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anything even if they're just standing basically on the sidelines and they're not filming it, you know, videoing it
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and doing something wrong. They're just standing there and they're not um basically stopping it, intervening. So,
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what stops them from doing that? How does witnessing others other people witnessing bullying affect
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a child? This bystander that I'm speaking about and what are the psychological barriers that prevent them from intervening?
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Being a bystander to bullying can be quite hard and complicated.
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It's almost as if you're going through secondary trauma um by seeing the extent of the bullying that someone is experiencing.
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This can cause significant emotional distress in children and they can feel guilty and sad and a lot of other
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emotions and they feel worry of course because they wonder if they will be next.
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They wonder if what would happen if they actually stopped or intervened.
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Um they wonder a lot of things and this can also cause guilt, right? But there's also this reduced sense of safety.
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If a child is witnessing another child successfully bullying a student, then
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they feel that if they were to be bullied as well, the person would get away with it because the system hasn't
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proven to be safe to be able to stop such an act.
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But then there's also this complexity that comes with whether a person or a child should intervene or not. And often
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times people don't intervene because they fear the retaliation or the social
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dynamics that could change for them if they actually intervened.
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They wonder if they'll be targeted if their social status will change. They there's a lot of things that could affect them socially if they intervened.
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And that can be quite scary for kids because being social and having friends is a very important part or important thing for them at that stage.
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But there's also fears around the system feeling as if it's not safe for them.
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Feeling that um there's no adults that will be able to support them if they intervene.
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Right? Because as a bystander, if you intervene and things don't go exactly the way that you thought they would, you
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are the one that's going to carry the brunt of that and having to live with that reality and being bullied perhaps
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every day. And that's a very uncomfortable and distressing thought.
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And so there's a lot of complex feelings that also come with being a bystander.
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Um it can be very challenging for kids to find themselves in that position.
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Sure. That's uh quite an intense conversation at the moment with Nabia and Impor. Um there's actually a lot a
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lot to unpack there just from I think there were about four or five questions that Nabia asked him poor and I'm sure
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if there was there wasn't a time limit um they could have gone on for longer uh cuz like I said quite quite a lot to
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unpack and I think we just don't we don't realize um how much this affects our children and obviously how it could
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affect them later on in life. There's a lot of psychological issues around bullying and that later uh surfaces and there's also the trauma as well.
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Yeah. Um I want to say that it it doesn't only happen in schools, you know, it's a consistency. She says it's
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a consistency of bullying someone with your words, your actions,
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and making them feel like they're truly alone in this. So it it doesn't only happen in schools,
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you know, it can also happen in your homes, parents, older siblings. Um it could happen in your neighborhood um
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amongst other family members. And all of that has an effect on the child later on
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which it it later affects their adulthood obviously and and it lasts into their adulthood.
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Yeah. Well, like you said, um it doesn't only happen at schools and I think it doesn't only happen to children.
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Bullying happens in the workplace as well. So, even when people have grown up, maybe they might have been uh bullied at school and then they carry
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that trauma um through their adulthood and it sometimes continues in corporate life. Um, but I think if if you would
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like to join the conversation, our WhatsApp line is open at 0727861548
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or you can call in on 0185472 or you can even DM us on.com
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that's ov zoom m on social media. I think let's go for a break and when we
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get back we will hear more from educational psychologist Imp Muking inshallah
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tutoring mentoring homeschool assistance concessions facilitation and more
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visit after grant academy the dawn of excellence
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and welcome back to level up if you've just tuned in we have been talking all about anti-bullying.
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Educational psychologist Paul Mora King has been sharing some
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valuable information about bullying and the effects on children who have
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been bullied. And right now we continue our discussion with Paul Muffing with
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ways in which to deal with bullying. Our WhatsApp line is open. The number is 0727861548
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or you can call in on 011854722
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or you can even DM us on iil.com if you would like to contribute to today's discussion.
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So poor, we've learned about why um children bully and the long-term
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psychological effects and looking out for warning signs, but now we want to know um what can one do if their child
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is being bullied. So when a child discloses that they are being bullied,
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what is the single most helpful thing that a parent or a guardian should say or do? And what should they absolutely avoid saying?
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When a child discloses that they are being bullied, the most important thing to do is to listen.
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And by this I mean be curious about their experience. Listen to what they're saying. How are they telling you? When
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did this start? Um, how have they been handling it? Who have they reported to?
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How do they feel about this? How have they been coping with the emotions that come with experiencing something like
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this? Be curious about their experience and not in a way that feels like you're investigating, but rather just wanting
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to empathetically understand what they've been going through.
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When children decide to break the silence about being bullied, it often takes a lot of internal negotiations to
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be able to disclose. And so the way in which you react to them disclosing is very important because you don't want to
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make them feel as if they shouldn't have told you or that they can't come with similar problems in the future because of how you react, right? And the most
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important way to contain that experience and to contain their feelings and to validate their their experiences is to
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listen. Be there with them. Sit with them. Allow them to be emotional and cry if that's what they need. Hug them if
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that's what they need. Um and then you can take it from there.
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Afterwards, once you have a broader understanding of the situation that they've been going through, then you can
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think about the next steps after you've understood. The thing to avoid is overreacting or underreacting.
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When you overreact, that means you are overshadowing overshadowing the child's experience with your own emotions
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because you're struggling to regulate your own emotions in that moment and it becomes about you and your anger and your frustration rather than that lived
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experience that the child was going through. They could feel lost um or misunderstood in that moment. similar to
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underreacting. That would be saying something like, "Ah, you know, we all get bullied." Those kind of statements
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can be very harmful because although yes, bullying is something that happens in a lot of different environments, it's not something that we should normalize.
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And so by saying something like that or under or underplaying rather that experience, you're you're
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overlooking the harmful experiences that the child might have been going through all this time. And it's also
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not taking into account that it probably took them time to disclose that once again. And now you're saying gh you know
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it happens. that can be very very harmful and it also makes it hard for them to come forth about any other
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situation that they could be going through in the future because you're not a safe space to disclose such things.
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Yes, that's so true. So, what specific social emotional skills can parents teach their children to make them less
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vulnerable to being targeted or um what skills can better equip them to stand up for themselves and others?
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This one is a hard one because um when a child goes through bullying or
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is vulnerable to being bullied, the responsibility should not be put on them. It should be put on the person that's causing harm.
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That's where the intervention should be going ideally. That's what should be the target. How do we address the people
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that are possibly inflicting harm through being bullies? But I understand that um sometimes it's not always
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possible to directly influence the person that's causing harm or essentially being a bully. But some of the things that you
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can do as a parent to ensure that your child isn't as severely affected by bullying should it happen is to make
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sure that your child has a good self-esteem.
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Make sure that your child has a good relationship with themselves, that they are aware of their capabilities and they feel good about themselves and they feel confident.
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um that they have a healthy relationship because if someone is being bullied and they have a low self-esteem, it can be
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very very easy to be severely affected by by those actions or those words. Um
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and this is not to say that if you have a high self-esteem or good self-esteem that you won't be affected. You will be affected. But if you know yourself and
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you trust yourself and you and you know your value, you won't be easily affected by what people think of you or how they
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see you compared to someone that does have a low self-esteem.
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A different way is through teaching your child to be assertive. This is making them to be able to say,
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"No, I don't want to do this." and to be able to stand up for themselves without being shamed. Um, it can also be
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empowering them to be able to advocate for themselves because these are the things that are going to allow them to be able to report or to tell someone about what they might be experiencing.
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And the third one would be having good friends. encouraging your child to have good friends, friends that truly do have
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their best interest at heart at heart and would want to stand up for them um and and support them. Um often times
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bullies target kids that might be by themselves. Um and so if your child has friends, it might be harder for them to
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be targeted because there's other people there that could potentially support them or defend them if anything happens.
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But ultimately I think parents should partner up with schools.
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How do parents work with schools to make sure that it's a safe system where kids can comfortably report such things?
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That's a thing that is lacking in some schools where kids don't feel that it's safe to be able to disclose that they
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are being bullied because there might not be compassion and empathy and follow through from the system.
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um to see if indeed something like that is happening and it being followed up with consequences.
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Um and so we need to work on our school systems to make sure that they are safe and supportive um and that kids feel that they can be
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able to disclose such things before they escalate um into something far more significant or far more harmful.
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That's so true. We definitely need to work together with the school and the school system needs to implement things that truly prevent bullying. You know,
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focusing on the school climate they in the school environment and instead of just just punishing offenders after they
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have offended um you know prevent it beforehand. So what implementations or interventions
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a a child um sorry a school can do to change the behavior rather than just apply punishment.
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some of the interventions that schools can put in place when it comes to addressing behaviors related to bullying
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and changing the behavior really I think would be to take a firm stance in terms of having a zero bullying school. Um and
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that can be in terms of workshops that I had with students where they explain um that this is a behavior that is not
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allowed at school. um psychoeducating the student in terms of the different kinds of bullying that exists and
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sometimes even involving um psychologists or lawyers to show them that there are serious consequences to
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bullying someone, that there could be legal cases to bullying someone. Because when kids are aware of this information,
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it might change the way in which they do things and they might think twice before they engage in that kind of behavior.
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The second thing I would say is as a school parental involvement would be very very important. There needs to be a
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collaboration between the school and the home environment so that there can be continuity in terms of how a child is being held accountable. What kind of
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conversations are being had with them and how are they taking responsibility for their actions.
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Another one would be um understanding the why of it all. Why was the child
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engaging in such behavior? And sometimes it might not be the school's place to understand the why. But then they would
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the child the child that was bullying would then have to be referred to therapy perhaps so that the why can be understood.
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Because if they themselves can understand why they engaged in that kind of behavior through exploring it in therapy, then perhaps it could give them
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insight into some of the things that they might actually be going through and how it's playing out in their lives.
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Thank you so much and Paul for joining us today and informing us about all of this. It was extremely enlightening and
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helpful. And um before you go um how can any of our listeners who need any
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assistance or want to contact you, how do they get hold of you?
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They can contact us on the following number 0694348066.
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Alternatively, they can find out more about the services that we provide on the following website
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www.leedo.jo Joelberg that would be www.l
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e t o j o b u rg. Thank you.
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So there you heard it. Um if you want to get in touch with Impor or Leto it's www.leetto.jo it's lo.
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Thank you very much to poor for taking the time out. um to have that conversation with Nabiad was very
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insightful discussion about bullying um about you know the ways that we can try
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and prevent it. Um and I think that we taught uh as children that bullying can
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have that bullying can have a longlasting effect even into adulthood and we heard Paul saying that today. um
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she's an educational psychologist so it's not just made up it's you know it's the truth um
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yeah there's something I also um found very interesting was that she said the
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child who is bullying um is should be taken into therapy she said um the one
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who is causing harm they need to speak to so this is where I think a lot of us
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I think most of us who grew up a certain way where um with this we witness this
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mentality of um situations like the victim in any given incident the victim is blamed or where the victim's
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willingness to be hurt or harmed in any way is questioned and then they have traits of p or personality disorders
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that um later would need therapy instead of actually looking at the real problem.
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And I think you mentioned it to me uh something that you saw or that you read about uh where a psychologist was saying
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um something about those who are in therapy aren't the only ones who need it. It's the ones who have uh put them there.
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Yes. It went something like I heard a therapist say the ones who need the therapy don't come to us, their victims do. And that hit me hard.
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So with that in mind, I think it's not going to end here. We will have to discuss this in future episodes inshallah. Um as it's a very important
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topic which needs to be revisited now and again. But before we wrap up today's program, Issa has something he would like to share.
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I found this on social media from big life journal which I found very
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interesting and thought I would share this today.
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What fills up your child's emotional cup? Number one, lots of time for free
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imaginative play. Number two, one-on-one special time with a parent. Number
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three, regular hugs and cuddles. Number four, clear rules with a nurturing
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approach. Number five, feeling heard and seen. Number six, words of affirmation.
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Number seven, time in nature. Number eight, positive friendships. Number nine, family rituals and traditions.
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Number 10, feeling unconditionedly loved. Number 11, having a sense of control.
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And number 12, having a voice at home.
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Shukran Issa for sharing that with us. I think lots of our children's development has to do with this you know the filling
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of the emotional cup and uh one of the things that Issa mentioned now and in Paul also mentioned was positive
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friendships um so Issa how full is your emotional cup very full alhamdulillah
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I don't know if that is true because he kept looking at us like a free imaginative play. Then he looks at us
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like, "Let me play more." And one-on-one time with parenting and regular hugs and cuddles, words of
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affirmation. But alhamdulillah, um, if we follow these steps and we implement it in our homes, inshallah, we can hopefully reduce the amount of bullying.
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Inshallah,
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um, I know it might be difficult at times, but also one of the things is to not engage
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with the bully. Um I see many times especially online where the more you engage with the bully the more power you
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give them and obviously others around who in start to encourage the behavior as well. Um but if we just ignore the
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bully obviously in situations that you can cuz I mean it's not not always possible. Um that already strips them of power that they think they have.
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Okay. Um I also noticed that a child who never heals not only grows up to be affected in terms of you know being
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introverted or away from others but they could grow up to be an adult who never healed emotionally and they could take
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it out on others or even their own children. You know often times there are those um who who think that they do no
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wrong. you know, they they have done nothing wrong and you don't hear like a a true apology from them and even if there were a discussion,
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you would just know that um they aren't going to be truthful. So, it affects
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adults in such a way that they hold it in so much. Maybe maybe they were bullied when they were younger but they
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became a person who um emotionally did not heal and they in turn became an adult who bullied. Do you understand?
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And in terms of adults, um I would say distance is just the best option and leaving it in Allah's hands. Inshallah.
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I mean, I think let's not get into a whole new discussion. But once again, if our dear listeners would like to add to our conversation of anti-bullying this
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week, you can do so on our social media pages at on Instagram, Facebook, x,
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LinkedIn, YouTube, Tik Tok, as well as threads.
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to our dear listeners for joining us on this lovely Sunday afternoon and join us every Sunday inshallah from 2 to 300
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p.m. right here on Radio Islam International from myself Nabiha from Zad and from Issa. Enjoy your Sunday and we wish you a wonderful week ahead inshallah.
